Professor Klein, what fascinates you about biomimetics?

Linda Klein: Whether it's bionics or biomimetics, it's pretty cool that we can solve many technical problems by simply looking at nature. And what I find exciting is that these are often extremely simple solutions to complex problems. Evolution has produced some really, really good ideas and, above all, very sustainable ones. What I particularly like about it - and that's why I really enjoy my current professorship - is that it's based on interdisciplinarity. I need physics, I need chemistry, I need biology, I need engineering.

You previously studied media sciences. How did you come to biomimetic research?

Linda Klein: Interestingly enough, I ended up coming full circle, which I had never seen before. During my first degree, European Media Studies, I was very fascinated by the philosophical and ethical aspects. The fact that we humans always act at the interface with nature and see technical products as an interface. But what annoyed me a bit back then was that we were only ever scratching the surface. It was more about designing products on the outside; I missed the ability to zoom in on the product.

In my second degree, mechanical engineering, I developed an affinity for materials: Now I start with the molecule, from the inside out. And so, during my doctorate with Professor Joseph, I ended up working on functionalised material systems (composites) and, through my current professorship, on biomimetic material systems.

Professor Linda Klein will be starting at Reutlingen University in March. Professor Joseph, how were you able to support Professor Klein on her way to the professorship?

Yvonne Joseph: Essentially by being there and answering questions. Questions that my doctoral student may not have even asked because she didn't realise she was supposed to ask them. There are many unwritten rules on the path to a professorship at the Linda Klein did her doctorate while working in industry and therefore didn't have all the internal processes at the university on her radar. I think the most important thing is actually this encouraging role: encouraging someone that everything they believe they can achieve, they can achieve.

Linda Klein: Yes, that's true. Yvonne ultimately gave honest feedback: Keep researching this, don't leave this research result lying around, ... I found that very helpful, because you are constantly questioning yourself during the doctoral process. I'm sorry to have to say this, but especially as a woman in this scientific and technical environment, I have repeatedly asked myself throughout my career whether I am actually in the right place in this field.

You just mentioned it, Ms Klein. Can you describe the hurdles as a woman in the STEM field?

Linda Klein: Ultimately, I felt these hurdles from my mechanical engineering degree onwards. My well-founded results were listened to and then the men around me acted as if I had never spoken. And no matter how tough you seem or try to be on the outside, it does something to you. You're constantly questioning whether you're doing the right thing? Am I really worse than the others? That was my personal experience. I can't prove this scientifically, but I feel that in our society, partly consciously, partly unconsciously, it is perceived that women's research or what women achieve is not as well-founded as that of men. Or that this achievement simply doesn't want to be seen.

Yvonne Joseph: Unfortunately, as a woman in STEM subjects, you are always somewhat exposed. You're often the only woman or one of a few. You have to be resilient and constantly reassure yourself: "I'm here and that's how it is supposed to be!"

But there are many programmes to support young female scientists...

Yvonne Joseph: Of course, there are programmes at every university. At TU Bergakademie Freiberg, there are mentoring programmes for students, doctoral candidates and postdocs. Young women can learn a lot from these group programmes. What is still important, however, is individual support. Because every person, whether male or female, has different challenges, struggles in different areas and perhaps has crises at different times. That's exactly when you have to be approachable as a mentor!

Linda Klein: Exactly, the programmes are very helpful, but I have benefited most from role models. In other words, from someone like Professor Joseph, who meets me at eye level and is a sparring partner not only professionally but also mentally. For example, I learnt from my mentor how to act strategically in my career: How do I behave in meetings? How do I deal with a stupid remark? What's important in an appointment procedure?

Have you both also observed a cultural change? Is the economy, are universities ready for women in STEM fields?

Yvonne Joseph: Well, I believe that this is a societal problem and that each individual university, each company cannot change that much on its own. When a girl becomes a woman, one is under social pressure as a person. And as soon as you step out of line, deviate from norms or conventions in any way, you have a problem. Then you go on a confrontational course and you have to want that and be able to endure it.

Linda Klein: However, as I have noticed in various interviews, there are differences from university to university in how they deal with women and the topic of family. At Reutlingen University, I can give lectures with my second child in my arms, who is just three months old. There are changing tables, a campus nursery and a holiday childcare programme, even for older children. It's good that universities are getting involved. But in society as a whole, family should be taken much more for granted in the context of the work place.

Yvonne Joseph: I think there are many women who simply don't want to pursue an academic career for family reasons.

Linda Klein: Yes, because they think they have to take a back seat because of children or other caring responsibilities. And I think we need to take the step of dealing with the issue of family and work in a much more normal way. But unfortunately, I don't think we're anywhere near there yet.

And to come back to women in science: In my career, I have always met great people, women and men, who have supported and encouraged me. My most important advice is therefore to network, talk to each other and also talk about yourself. There are many impressive female scientists. When I once thanked Yvonne for her good support, she said that her greatest contribution was to pass on what had helped her. This thought has stayed with me to this day and will continue to do so in the future: we will continue to work together at various interfaces.